Monster in the Machine interview with Shannon Crawford written by Lynn
Last month at the end of my review of Shannon Crawford and his band
Monster in the Machine I mentioned having also done an interview with
Shannon, which would publish this month. After the band's performance
at the World Cafe Live in Philadelphia, Shannon was kind enough to
meet with me to talk about his new CD and his musical efforts, although
at first it was beginning to seem as though fate didn't want us to do this
interview. Between the fact that there really was no quiet, private spot at
the venue where we could talk, since it's more like a restaurant than a
concert venue. We first tried outside, but it was pouring rain, and
everyone was huddled under the overhang of the building's entrance and
this one umbrella that stood over a sidewalk ashtray. When that didn't
work, we tried in the breezeway between the main door and the inside
door, but the echo in there was terrible, and all we heard was Rock four
playing in the room next to us. You get the idea. After a while it did
become funny though, and we did, thankfully, find someplace where
we could talk in relative peace and actually hear each other.

[After asking the same question, and changing our location three
times... We start, trying to do the interview outside. Traffic, as well as
rain, is making it just about impossible at this point, but we try anyway].

LM:  I'd never even heard of the band, or your music, but Amanda
[Cagan], she's the one that alerted me to it, and after I gave a listen,
I was like, "Oh my God.
This is really good!". It's just... The etherealness of it, the feel of it. So
you... Were in a band called Cellophane before. And I did read in the
band's bio that you'd experienced some label problems? What was that,
something like ten years ago?  

SC: Not so much label problems that were any different than anyone
else. Every new bad, unless they're lucky enough to blow up, or unless
the timing is just right, we just had the typical "new band vs the label" situation, there was nothing really different to what normally
happens.

LM: OK. It seemed from what I had read that, maybe you guys were young, and you needed the guidance and you didn't get it...
That kind of thing...

SC: Yeah

LM: So, now you're doing this on an indie label and...
what kinds of things are different? Doing it on your own.

SC: I actually like it a lot more because I know exactly what's going on. I know exactly who's involved. I'm in direct contact with
maybe 5, 6 different people, all doing different things, and I get an account of what's happening as it's happening.
I'm kind of a control freak - you know, I produced my whole record, I wrote the whole thing by myself.
You've got to be somewhat of a control freak to do that. Or, I wouldn't say "control freak," but more a "perfectionist?"

LM: Yeah.

SC: It's just good... One thing is...

[Now there's all kinds of noise from people loading and unloading things from a truck right in front of the venue, along with traffic
sounds and the rain...]

SC: ... It's my friend Munky's personal money. It's not some, big anonymous label that's just open pocket.
It's his money and we've got to be careful with it. We can't just be crazy, spend like crazy.

LM: Right. But he obviously has enough faith in you, and the band to know that you guys are doing something really good with this,
and can get enough people to listen. Where did you come up with the name? Because, I'll say that personally, when I heard the name,
this wasn't at all what I thought of, the picture I had, of what this music is really like. I was thinking like...
really heavy metal...

SC: Yeah, it does have a kind of heavy-metal sound to it, but really, it's a political statement. The machine being the powers of the
world, the governments of the world that are in power, and the human race is the monster in that machine, the ones that keep it going,
by believing the lies, the lie of... The illusion of owning your own home, or the illusion of winning wars against these sort of "epic" US
enemies.
Like... The "war on drugs," or "war on terrorists"; it's just a marketing scheme, and... We're the monsters that keep that machine
going. Yeah, so, basically, the Monster in the Machine is the human race.

[And the noise level continued to get even louder...]

SC: It's more political, I guess.

LM: It's really appropriate for this day and age, right now.

SC: Yeah, Absolutely.

LM: That's really interesting for me, because two nights ago I saw
Bad Religion, to review and photograph them, so, yeah, you know
what their songs are like... it's the same thing...

SC: Oh, yeah. I was a really big fan in high school.

LM: And you know, they're going strong with that same message.

[Now the truck is backing up, and there's that awful 'beeeeeep-
beeeeeep' sound. Shannon and I just looked at each other and kind
of laughed at this point but tried to carry on].

SC: Yeah.

LM: Tell me a little about working with Josh Freese.
He's worked with so many great bands.

[Then to add to the noise, a random person walking down the street
approaches us and asks Shannon for a cigarette, so he politely explains
that he just put out his last, apologizes, and we again chuckle over all
of this before attempting to start again].

SC: Well, Josh Freese, he did a lot of Puddle of Mudd stuff, and my own bass player from Cellophane, he's in Puddle of Mudd, so he
had a direct contact with him.
And he heard some of the stuff and he loved it, and said "yeah, I'll do it". 'Cause the thing is, he does so many things, and he gets
asked to do so many things, he kind of does what he likes. He has the option. He doesn't "have to" take anything, so... it was great. He
was a total pro, he came in and did the whole record in, literally, two days. Came in, did four or five songs, next day did four or five
songs, listened to it once, went out and played it, basically in one take.

LM: Yeah, it must be nice to have the choice to pick and choose which projects you want to work on, as well as to be one of those
projects that gets picked.


















comfortable with it getting as big as it wants to get. I'm not afraid of success.

LM: Well yeah, that's good, definitely. I ask because you know, there are some bands that just... don't want to get that big. OK. The
first time I heard anything by Monster in the Machine, I was listening to songs on the MySpace, and the first thing that appealed to me
was the "sound"; the first thing that I heard coming out of that was ELO. And... you just don't hear that today, anymore.

[Our interview is once more interrupted by people gathering and being kind of obnoxiously loud, so we move again. And again. And
yet again... until we finally wind up back in the same spot, but after the other people had left. It's beginning to be really funny at this
point].

LM: [Trying AGAIN!] Right. So! We were talking about influences, and sounds and... ELO... Depeche Mode and Bowie and...

SC:  Yeah, when people ask, "What's your music like," I usually say 'early Bowie, with late Beatles, and 80's overtones. There's... It's
not like I wanted to directly go out and rip off bands, but it's just... music that I've heard, and that I love, that moves me, and as a
result of that... what comes out of me is a result of those bands that I love, basically. It's not like I listen to a band an am like, "yeah, I
want to sound like that." That would be crazy. That would be plagiarism.

[Incidentally, it was really difficult for both of us to keep our train of thought, and listening back to this tape, we went round and
round SO many times, trying to get through the list of questions! XD]

LM: Yeah, exactly. Have you ever heard of the old band Christian Death, by any chance?

SC: I've heard of them. I haven't heard them.

LM: Yeah, actually, I know of them, but I've only heard two or three of their songs, but what's interesting, why I bring it up, too, is
that... my friend that's with me tonight, he loves them. And one night we were listening to your songs and I played Savior, and he
looked at me and said "Who is that?! Is that Christian Death?" And I told him no, it wasn't, that it was Monster in the Machine, and...
it's just one of those things where... I guess it felt like...
this black and eyeliner and goth sound, something that immediately caught both of our ears, because we like that kind of music, too.

SC: A lot of the goth kids are really liking Savior. That's what I hear.

LM: Yeah, I love it!

SC: I love the whole goth "vibe," you know... my complexion's a little too pink, and my hair's a little too blond to pull it off but...
yeah. I love it.

LM: Yeah, you need a little eyeliner.

SC: Hey, I might start doing that!

LM: Hey, you'd look good with a little eyeliner!
[laughing]

SC: [laughing]

[And of course this noisy interview would not be complete without a taxi cab driving past, blaring its horn full blast... We attempted to
just ignore that one].

LM: Yeah! What I particularly like the most about the 80's undertones to your music is that you naturally have that, what is it... that
"120 Minutes" 80's vibe, rather than it being that... what was it, the MTV Top 20, or something.

SC: Yeah, of course. Oh, that's right! 120 Minutes! I mean, yeah. That's the kind of 80's music... I'm not gonna be doing like,
Whitney Houston influences, that type stuff.

LM: Well, no, maybe not her, but what I mean was that there were bands out then that were... we have bands out today that have
"80's undertones" sounds like something Billy Idol would have done, which is cool, but... you know...

SC: It's been done. Yeah. Really...

LM: And I know, with the kids today, when you say "Hey, that sounds like... The Church," and they're like "who?"  It's like.. Oh, no
way! You have to go listen to that!

SC: Oh yeah! I loved The Church. They're... that was definitely...

LM: This conversation is dating me!

SC: [laughing] This conversation is dating you?

LM: [laughing] Yeah. I know too much obscure 80's stuff... OK, so... you said this was the second part of the tour that you're on
here...

[It starts pouring rain yet again, so we try one last time to find quiet, and end up, finally, in the tour van]

SC: OK, here. Let's try... Alright, cool.

LM: Ah, ok. So. This is the second part of the tour, and I believe I read on your MySpace that you guys were getting a really good
response. The CDs are selling. Are the... houses full? This [speaking of the World Cafe Live in particular] is kind of a neat setup
[referring to the fact that the bands play in front of a restaurant-type set-up].

SC: Yeah. This is, basically, I love these guys, Rockfour, they love doing what they do, and they're apparently huge in Tel Aviv. I
spoke to this Israeli friend of mine, and they were like... blown away, it was such a big deal that I was opening for Rockfour, and...
but they're not very known in America, and so the audiences are going to be a little smaller. So, I'm kind-of... taking this as just our
sort-of getting our stage legs going, and a little warm-up kind of situations, getting us ready for the Debbie Harry dates we're going to
be doing, and for Team Sleep.

LM: Oh great! Wow, that's awesome. I'm definitely going to have to check that out, when you tour with them, and when you guys
come back around.

SC: Yeah.

LM: Yeah. I think... yeah, this is definitely good to have, then, to help, what... solidify your sound, especially since you're touring
with different musicians that the ones who did the record with you, is that right?

SC: Yeah. Right. But... John Chase is in the band, and he played guitar in Cellophane. And then... Jay Cury, I've been in bands with
before, and then Lats, the bass player, was in a band called Memento, and I've known Lats for... I didn't just do some cattle-call
audition thing. These are people that I've known for a long time, and trust because... it's such an intimate thing to be in a band with
someone that you don't even know... if you don't like them, it would be very difficult. I want to have fun. Life is too short. I don't
want to be miserable at any moment.

LM: Yeah... And it must be amazing... and difficult, too, to do this kind of thing, especially at the beginning, when you're out there
plugging it and plugging it and plugging it and saying 'hey everyone, look at us, we're really good,' and then, you know, converting
fans one at a time, and still have to deal with everything else on top of that, so I can see how you'd want that.

SC: Yeah.

LM: I understand that along with being a musician, you're also an artist?

SC: Yeah, I'm a painter.

LM: What kind of painting do you do?

SC: I paint oil on canvas and oil on panel, and it's sort of an abstract, figurative look. I love the abstract. I love pop art. But I also like
to show that I have skill and I can paint the human form. So I apply that in the piece. Maybe later I might get into really abstract stuff,
but I like to show that I've...
developed a skill, and a style. Because I like to pain the human form, but I like them in abstract situations, or abstract... actually the
physical form abstracted.

LM: Do you do anything else? Do you write? I mean, other than songs.

SC: No, umm... I started writing a story, a science-fiction, animated script for a film I was developing, and doing the art for called
Orphian, and we're actually speaking with a couple of production companies now to put that out. James [Shaeffer], were was going
to produce it, and he put money into a three-minute trailer, and the people we hired to do it botched it. And it just looked terrible. So
we just sort of...

LM: Oh no. That's terrible.

SC: Yeah, they totally ruined it.

LM: What a disappointment. Maybe you'll get to do it in the future, though.

SC: Yeah, just... one more thing to pay James back for... [laughing] My dear friend, my best friend. And that's why, you know...

[At this point, one of the other band members opens the side door on the van, making this loud noise, and we both stop and just stare
at him a moment, probably both thinking "WHAT NOW!?" before we just ignore him and continue on while he finds what he needs
and then pulls the door shut again].

SC: ... someone asked me, you know, "when are you going to go in and do the next record?" And I basically said... when I sell
enough records to get my friend paid back. That's another thing with an independent label, and this is very independent. One person's
pocket. And so the goal with this record is to get him reimbursed, so we have an opportunity to make a second record. I think, at this
point, there will always be someone who'll want to pick us up, but I want to stay...

[NOW it starts pouring out, making the inside of the van sound like a firing range. We both start laughing pretty good].

SC: Oh, and now we have rain! [laughing]

LM: [laughing more] Oh man. OK... moving on... I overheard part of a conversation somewhere, or maybe I read something, I can't
remember, but what was said was something in regard to the giants, the labels, and how they're soon going to cancel each other out,
and everything's going to go indie. What do you think about that? Do you agree with that?

SC: Umm... I think...what's happening... who knows?
You know? How do we know that... the whole Napster thing wasn't created by them so that they could cancel each other out and
become one huge, giant label with no competition. Isn't that the goal of the corporations? Not to have competition and just to own
everything?

LM: It's starting to happen, with the mergers that are happening...

SC: Maybe they planned the whole thing? Because...
they're not the ones losing the money, you know? It's the artists. Now they have the 360-deals where they take half your publishing,
and half your merch, and half your shows...

LM: Wow... really?

SC: Well, yeah, because they have their lifestyles that they need to maintain and their yachts and their three homes and their kids in
private school and...they're not going to give that up. So, if there are artists out there that are stupid enough, and willing enough to
give these fuckheads all their shit, then, yeah, they're going to keep... keep gnawing away at us. Just like predatory lenders giving
people these...mortgages that are not fixed, it's just a scam to make the poor, poorer. Like, for instance, I live in LA, and... I fucking
hate it. I moved out, and I'm living on the road right now. I can't live there anymore. I don't want to drive a car anymore, I don't... in
face I was driving a vegetable oil car. I think that cars are the number one destroyers of the environment. So anyway, I'm looking at a
place, I'm just curious for what things are selling for, a tiny, little place in Manhattan... for $600,000.00 And, you know, if I did some
kind of publishing deal or something, got a big advance, sure, maybe I could pull that down but...they want to make sure you're
making four times the amount of the actual mortgage. So basically, only a millionaire - because that piece of property will go up, to a
million dollars in five years, probably - but poor people aren't "entitled" to have their property raise in value like that. You have to be
rich in order to make that kind of money.

LM: It's awful.

SC: And, another thing, if we're talking about pet peeves, is the pharmaceutical companies and the FDA.
The FDA is there to protect the pharmaceutical companies, when we can really heal ourselves with any natural remedy. Preventive
medicine, you know, prevention. But they're brain washing us with every other TV commercial being some pharmaceutical company.
So I stopped watching pedestrian television because it makes me sick...

LM: I hardly watch TV anymore, either, and I don't miss it.

SC: I mean, I'll watch... I like my HBO, and stuff like that, that's different...

LM: I rent movies when there's something I want to see, too.

SC: Yeah. Dexter. I love Dexter, Entourage, Real Time with Bill Maher. Anyway, yeah... wow, I'm all over the place with this.

LM: Oh, hey, it's cool. I really like the way you think, though!

SC: Oh, good.

LM: No, really. I agree with you... on all these points. As well as what we were originally talking about...

SC: Definitely put that in! How do we know that the labels didn't create all this themselves? It's sorta like how we create some bogus
war just to, I mean, there are many possibilities. Just to secure a base in that region of the world to...? There's a movie that, if anyone
reads this I'd like you all to watch, it's called "The Selling of Iraq," and that will explain to you a lot about what a cash-and-carry war
this is, through Haliburton, and how they're doing what they're doing. I can't explain in detail, but I love that documentary because
they're interviewing just... real Americans from the south and the midwest that, probably in 2000 voted for Bush, but are now seeing
what's really going on because they went over there to work for Haliburton, which is... the demonic entity of this nation. And that is
the reason of that war. So that Dick Cheyney's old company - of which he was the CEO - they can all just kick back and... cash and
carry, our whole government, and our whole country's been led to believe...

LM: And it seems like the rest of us, the average person, we're not strong enough even if we band together to do the right things that
we need for change.

SC: Well, even Paris has been Americanized to some extent. I went with Korn three years ago, to [Le] Bercy[?], it's a venue with this
grass triangle, and the kids would crowd surf and they'd come over and the security guards would be laughing, and they'd...
politely move them out of the way and send them back into the crowd. And I went there this summer, and security had become just...
soldiers. Like, American asshole security guards and they'd pick up the kids and throw them and hurt them, and kick them out for...

LM: Like Fall Out Boy's security guards! [laughing]

SC: [laughing] Yeaaaah, so... if I ever have a security guard like that I' will... I'll bring my microphone around like a gaucho and sock
him in the head with it.

LM: They paid the money to come to the concert to have a good time, and already they frisk you, they take everything off you that
you could possibly have on you. So the kids are bouncing around and pushing and shoving a little bit. That happened the other night,
they threw three kids out because they were goofing off, but having fun...

SC: No... if I ever see a security guard pushing one of my fans around? I will go to jail that night. Because I'll take my guitar and put
the fucking guy in the hospital so... forewarning, security guards! [laughing]

LM: [laughing]

SC: I know. I'm goin' all over the place.

LM: Nah, it's cool, though. Because, like I said, I really agree with your point of view on this stuff.

SC: But I'm really a peaceful guy, you know? [laughing] I sound tough, but I truly am peaceful unless someone is directly acting like
my enemy like... the Haliburtons and the pharmaceutical companies and the cash and carry government and stuff like that.

LM: This reminds me, ok, another Bad Religion reference, since I just saw them last night, but one of their songs is called "Let Them
Eat War," which is like... so relevant to this conversation.

SC: Yeah. Definitely.

LM: OK, so who are you listening to these days?

SC: Right now? I'm listening to... The Doors. I love, I'm a big Doors fan and growing up I was... I just started listening to them again
because we opened for Riders on the Storm, which was really cool.

LM: Oh, that's...

SC: Yeah, Ray Manzara and Robby Krieger. Yeah, in high school I liked The Doors. Although I love the Beatles and the Stones now, I
was always sort of a Doors kid.

[Someone else comes into the van again, but we're on a roll, so we just carry on like nobody's even there this time...].

SC: A lot of 80s stuff, Jeff Buckly, nothing really new and cutting edge right now. You sort-of caught me off guard and that's the
only thing I can think of right offhand. I mean, I have my favorites...

LM: Like, when you guys hit the road, what CD is in there?

SC: Oh, they listen to... [Shannon held up some CD that he happened to find sitting on the van seat, I can't remember exactly what it
was, but it was something like rap or pop or... some other kind of music that we both obviously found to be less than appealing]

LM: No, I mean...

SC: Actually, I just met up with them. I was in upstate NY, I was in Woodstock, and then I was in the city all week, 'cus I'm kind of
homeless right now and staying with my girlfriend up there, so they drove the van across country and I flew. But not because I'm
some fancy-pants. I'm homeless. [laughing].

LM: [laughing] Hey, this is really great. I'm learning a lot about you, about the CD and the band... Maybe, can we close with a few,
just... random things? Like... what's your favorite movie?

SC: [displays a blank face as he is thinking] Well, let's see...

LM: [laughing] OK, I didn't think that would be the hardest question...

SC: I have so many of them! Blue Velvet, The Big Lebowski, Fight Club... oh God...

LM: Oh, okay. Cool!

SC: Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.

LM: That's another good one, yeah. My favorite movie is Jacob's Ladder.

SC: Oh yeah, that's another really great one.

LM: Yeah... that movie is so freaky. DO you have a favorite article of clothing that you wear, like... on tour, or to play in, or...
whatever?

SC: [pointing to the t-shirt and jeans he's wearing, Shannon then puts on his best Brit rockstar accent] No... this's the only outfit I've
got! [laughing]

LM: [laughing]

SC: Well, you know... James had this clothing store and he got sort of, he became partners with the wrong person I guess. She
[James' partner] did pick out some cool clothes. Too bad she had a coke problem and she blew the business, but I got this wonderful
Duarte Jeans jacket. [ he shows off the gorgeous black leather Duarte jacket with an embroidered skull motif on the back that he had
been wearing earlier]. And then I kinda splurged, I went to Diesel and got some pants that I like. I like the cut of some of the
American Apparel pants, they're cut tight and I like to wear those so... yeah, those work for me.

LM: Cool!

SC: I have my... [pulling on the front of his t-shirt] my ever t-shirts...

LM: Yeah! OK, cats or dogs?

SC: Umm... neither. I <i>love</i> animals in the wild, but I don't like domesticated animals. They freak me out.

LM: Oh?

SC: I just... they kind of irritate me. So do children, but... [laughing]

LM: [laughing]

SC: [laughing more]. Seriously... I would donate anything I could, time, my body, money, to protect wildlife and nature but... I just...
I cannot dig domesticated dogs and cats for some reason.

LM: Even the ones that don't know any better, that they didn't always used to be that way?

SC: And it's not them. I just... they're not for me. I just...

LM: Well that's okay. That's good... that you know that about yourself.

SC: Yeah, I mean, they're not for me. Maybe in the future. Maybe eventually, if I settle down? I like to travel. I'm a free spirit and I
don't want to be tied down to anything, not an animal, not... I have an eight-year-old daughter, and that's enough work as it is.

LM: Oh wow, really?

SC: Yeah, but the good news is, she can go to the bathroom on the toilet by herself. I don't have to take her outside for a half hour
and stand there until she shits and then I can go back in... [laughing]

LM: [laughing] Right!

SC: [laughing more]

LM: Well yeah, this has been fun! I appreciate you spending the time with me. Before I go, is there anything else you want to say
about your CD or the tour, or...

SC: Yeah... anyone who gets this CD, more than likely, will not be disappointed and in fact they'll probably love it. I don't want to
sound like some sales guy but... I love this record, and I'm a really tough guy to please. It hasn't gotten one bad review and I think
just picking it up, it's a way to sort-of get these big, corporate scam artists and... teach them a lesson and show them something.
Like... fuck them for signing these... Brittney Spears one-hittters and these just... Brittney Spears having the number one downloaded
song, that's heartbreaking. That's horrible. It's shit. It's soulless.

LM: And there are so many more artists out there that deserve the attention.

SC: Soulless. Yeah. Pick up something with a little bit of soul and maybe you might... see the world through a new pair of glasses,
maybe you might see things differently and maybe you might start turning off the TV a little more, you might... dim the lights in your
home, put some dimmers in and... light some candles... [laughing]

LM: The best thing though, is just... finding out about new music, and just... I haven't actually heard the entire CD, I've heard most
of it so far, but it really does just... grab you. And it's different. And just listening to the couple of songs on the MySpace I mean, you
can tell... this is something worth listening to. This band, this man is very talented, he's very passionate about what he does, and it
doesn't sound like fifteen other bands that have record deals now...

SC: Oh yeah. Definitely. People need to pick it up and hear more of it. Hear what it's like for someone to put out an entire, finished
CD and not just one or two songs.

LM: Oh, definitely! Absolutely. Well Shannon, I really want to thank you again for spending the time with me to talk about your
record and what's been going on with the band. Best of luck with it. It's really a great CD.

SC: Yeah, well, you're welcome. Thanks, thanks. So... where is this going to be out?

LM: Noizefront. It's a webzine that I do some pics and reviews for. I'll send the links so you can see it all once it publishes.

SC: Awesome. Yeah, thanks!
SC: Yeah.

LM: This is really great, I mean, the whole album
just sounds so good, I'm sure that he made the
right decision in this case. So what do you foresee
looking ahead for this now?

SC: Hopefully better tours, just... bigger tours,
and to eventually have a whole crew to help us
load the gear, so I don't have to stress about the
little things and I can just worry about going on
and just playing.

LM: How "big" is comfortable for you? How big
do you want this to get?

SC: [smiling] As big as... as big as it can be. I'm